ARRGGGHH! Please help me!!


From           B.D.Shearer@ncl.ac.uk
Date           17 Jan 1996 17:00:27 GMT

please help me before i hit something ( or someone!)

I own a 38# 68" metal riser recurve bow (made by Quicks archery for those 
in England) and i am having some great big problems tuning the damn 
thing.
I am a student at university, in england, so i don'yt have loads of cash 
to spend on me and my bow so it has taken a couple of years to get all my 
bits and pieces such as; f/f string, plunger button, longrod (Arten 
carbon), pro series v-bar & short rods, and finally some X7 (18+14) 
easton eclipse arrows (28"), chosen from the easton arrow selection 
chart.
Now no matter what the hell i do, i cannot get the damn thing tuned 
right with the plunger button extended as far in as i dare, and the 
spring as tight as i dare, a bare shaft arrow still goes to thie right of 
the rest of the group by about 8 inches, and i can be quite a daring chap 
sometimes...
( this is bare shaft testing at around 13 yards)
my grouping is in about a 3.5" diameter circle, and i'm stumped for a 
solutions..
can anyone give me ideas on what i'm doing wrong... any ideas no matter 
how silly...
 
thank u for your time...

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From           Omar Almaini <omar@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Date           19 Jan 1996 10:13:36 GMT
Newsgroups     rec.sport.archery

Hi Ben

First of all, no matter what the bare shaft tune tells you, 
are the arrows flying nice and straight? Its quite difficult
to tell indoors at close range, but you may get a better idea
if you ask somebody to watch. Also are the fletched shafts
hitting the target at funny angles?

A walk back test may be useful in establishing exactly what is wrong.
If your arrows form a straight line going further right as you 
increase the distance then your set-up definitely is too whippy.

Other things to try for whippy arrows: 

1. Lower your bracing height
2. Decrease the weight of your points. 
3. Shorten the arrows if you can get away with it. 1/4" can sometimes
   make a lot of differnce.

Have you tested your arrow clearance? If the fletchings foul the 
arrow rest assembly or pressure button this can often send the 
arrow way off course. Normally (for a right handed archer) this 
will throw the *fletched* shafts off to the right but if the clearance
problem is bad all sorts of funny things can happen. Using a spray
on talcum powder you can spray a nice thin film along the rear of the
arrow which will reveal any contact when shot. If you do have a 
problem then rotating the fletchings will usually help. Also
ensure that your arrow rest doesn't protrude too much beyond the
arrow shaft since this causes people a lot of clearance problems.
No more than about 3mm beyond the base of the shaft.

At the end of the day though if the arrows are wobbling around in 
flight and continue to shoot off right then you may need new arrows.
I've always found slightly stiffer aluminium arrows more forgiving
anyway. A bad release on a whippy arrow and it could go way off.
The Easton charts are only a guide after all and your own personal
shooting style has a lot to do with it.


Good luck

Omar..

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From: essay@aztec.asu.edu (STEPHEN A WALKER) 
Date: 1996/01/19


For B D Shearer ...

After reading your help request and browsing thru the tuning lit 
I have on hand ... here is what I found. The tuning lit is 
Sensabout Bow Tuning  by emery Louiselle of Bow and Arrow mag, and 
the tuning note insert that came with my own Berger Button some
15 years ago.

I made the assumption that you are a right handed shooter.
You did not say if you had to do anything spectacular to get your 
arrows on target. The tuning lit says bare shaft right (tail left)
is corrected with plunger in and tension increased so it seems you 
are doing everything ok. 

My suggetion ... (I have the same problems with my ArrowStar) ...
try a different tab.
try adjusting your anchor point a leeeettle bit.
try adjusting your nocking point down a little bit.

last but not least ... borrow someone release and shoot fletched
and bare with that. If Bare hits in the same area as fletched, then
it is your fingers release that needs to be smoothed out. If not,
then you might have to go to the next stiffer size shaft despite 
the chart spec. The other thing is that you can shorten your arrows
a bit to make them relatively stiffer. 

if you need ... I can photocopy and post of a copy of the pages I
have here ... yeah yeah ... I know its a copy right viol ... I'm 
trying to help him guys ... just send  the post address.

Hope some in this works ... 

-- 
Stephen A Walker

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From           jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Date           19 Jan 1996 12:16:30 GMT


B.D.Shearer@ncl.ac.uk writes:

>please help me before i hit something ( or someone!)

>I own a 38# 68" metal riser recurve bow (made by Quicks archery for those 
>in England) and i am having some great big problems tuning the damn 
>thing.

<Snip set up>

>Now no matter what the hell i do, i cannot get the damn thing tuned 
>right with the plunger button extended as far in as i dare, and the 
>spring as tight as i dare, a bare shaft arrow still goes to thie right of 
>the rest of the group by about 8 inches, and i can be quite a daring chap 
>sometimes...

Put your shaft back on just outside centre and stop pissing about ;-)

>( this is bare shaft testing at around 13 yards)
>my grouping is in about a 3.5" diameter circle, and i'm stumped for a 
>solutions..
>can anyone give me ideas on what i'm doing wrong... any ideas no matter 
>how silly...

Firstly take note of what Mr Almaini said (Omar to you and me!)

You may also want to consider group size at 20 yds it can be indicative
of tuning or clearance. If the group is the same size at 20 yds it's
probably clearance if it's bigger then it's tuning or clearance.

Here's another possibility. Are the limbs actually 38 @ 28". I've found
that most of these bows tend to be at least 2 pounds heavier than marked
(hence your shooting 40 not 38 and hence your arrows are whippy). In
fact recently I came across a Lonshot I or whatever they're called which
said 38 @ 28 and weighed 44 @ 28! Just another possibility.

                                Good Luck,

                                  John

PS Your bare shaft is definitely straight and the nock isn't damaged?

--
John Dickson,(aka Stretch)   

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From           Hywel Owen <h.owen@dl.ac.uk>
Date           Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:11:28 +0000
Newsgroups     rec.sport.archery


I agree with Monsieur Dickson - check your bow weight :

Most cheap metal bows sold in the UK (up until a couple of years 
ago) under various badges, are in fact rebadged Samick bows - either 
the SMT-7 (known variously as the Quicks Turbo thingy, Severn's 
whatever it's name is, etc.), or the SMT-9. If yours is from Quicks, 
then if it has adjustable limb weight it's an SMT-9, otherwise it's 
an SMT-7.

Anyway, I've had 3 Samicks, and seen loads of others (well, at least 
6), and they ALL weighed up heavier than marked (really, I'm not 
joking), usually by about 3 pounds.

TIP: Beware of using fastflight/carbons with these bows - they're 
really not up to it - that's why I've had three Samicks! :>

About tuning: unless you're shooting over 1250 FITAs, don't worry 
too much about tuning. My IMHO simple method for tuning is (for 
right handed archer) - 

Set the point of the arrow about 1/8" left of centre shot, a teeny 
bit more if you want. Set the base of the arrow nock 2mm above flat. 
Set your button to 'medium' pressure. Either watch your arrows 
coming out of the bow, or get someone else to. Adjust pressure on 
button until arrows are coming out fairly straight. DON'T WORRY!

Problems? could be: wrong arrow stiffness, strange release from 
fingers, poor quality pressure button.

Advice? - the other folks on the line have already given good 
advice.

Further tuning? - lots of books/articles on the subject.

Bare shaft test? - don't waste your time trying to get that annoying 
bare shaft into the fletched group. Most people start doing this and 
then give up, leaving it a good four inches out of the group (at 
20m)!

Hywel

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Re: ARRGGGHH! Please help me!!
From: dbaker@tir.com 
Date: 1996/01/22


It could be a long shot but I just purchased a bow this year and my 
groups were going way left..I found that if I kept the string off my 
cheek (my usual anchor point) everything cleared up..

dbaker
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Re: ARRGGGHH! Please help me!!
From: jagj@rhyolite.win-uk.net (John Jones) 
Date: 1996/01/22

 
In article <4dukhn$deb@s02.pavilion.co.uk>, Simon BUCKINGHAM (bucko@pavilion.co.uk) writes:

>
>Sorry to sound really dumb or obvious, but why not give Quicks a call? 
>It is a sod going to their new shop in Hampton Court, unless you have a car,
>but they could tell you what to do. If you go there, ask for someone to see
>you shoot on the indoor range. They are quite good with this.
>
>
>
This is true - I went to the Quicks Sapcote shop last summer
to complain about a bow which I had bought and couldn't tune.
I had a couple of hours help and coaching from Kim Copson
which resolved the problem: and they didn't try to sell me
anything!

As far as Ben's arrows are concerned, the Easton chart
suggests 1913s for his size bow; his arrows could be too
whippy.

John Jones                

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From           John Rayment <john.rayment@insignia.co.uk>
Date           Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:28:39 GMT

Hywel Owen wrote:
> 
[snip]
>
> TIP: Beware of using fastflight/carbons with these bows - they're
> really not up to it - that's why I've had three Samicks! :>
>
 [more snip]
> 
> Bare shaft test? - don't waste your time trying to get that annoying
> bare shaft into the fletched group. Most people start doing this and
> then give up, leaving it a good four inches out of the group (at
> 20m)!
> 

By way of a slight defence of Samick bows, I've got to say that I cheerfully shot an SMT7 with 
fastflite for quite a while, without any trouble (only stopped when it was 'liberated' from 
the back of my car).  As for bare shaft tuning - mine always tuned in quite nicely, although 
you do have to do some surgery to the plastic hook rest that's often shipped with it, to 
remove the little flat plastic spring thingie (it's intended for use if you don't have a 
button).

BaldJohn

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From           Hywel Owen <h.owen@dl.ac.uk>
Date           Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:49:25 +0000


Apologies to Samick lovers! Sounds like I've annoyed a few people...

I actually love Samick bows - another reason why I had three of 
them! They're reasonably stable, fast, and fantastic value - a 
Radian comes at over 5 times the price of an SMT-7. I just wouldn't 
recommend shooting high poundage/fastflight/carbons out of the old 
ones, since I broke a few...

Apologies again!

Hywel Owen
'What are those holes in your bow for?
 Are they to let the wind through?'

===================================================================

Hywel Owen <h.owen@dl.ac.uk> writes:

>Apologies to Samick lovers! Sounds like I've annoyed a few people...
.....
>Radian comes at over 5 times the price of an SMT-7. 

And then there's the Avalon................ ;-)

>Apologies again!

Nah, make 'em suffer.

>Hywel Owen
>'What are those holes in your bow for?
> Are they to let the wind through?'

At the British Champs in 1993 Wales archery had the Radian on show for
the first time in the UK. There was a list of *features* on a flyer they
were giving out and yes, the wind goes thro' the holes in your bow was
listed on the flyer! I think in jest.....I certainly hope in jest.

Not worrying about the holes 'cos I only ever worry about the bits I
paid for.

                                Stretch
--
John Dickson,(aka Stretch) 

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Re: ARRGGGHH! Please help me!!
From: Alan <green@green.demon.co.uk> 
Date: 1996/01/23


In article <4dj9vb$mdc@whitbeck.ncl.ac.uk>, B.D.Shearer@ncl.ac.uk writes
>please help me before i hit something ( or someone!)
>
>I own a 38# 68" metal riser recurve bow (made by Quicks archery for those 
>in England) and i am having some great big problems tuning the damn 
>thing.

I have a couple of suggestions which may improve your tuning. Bare
shafts impacting right usually mean a weak arrow, try using a stiffer
arrow. Looking at the Easton chart they recommend a 1914 for that bow
weight (even try a 1816 or 1916). Also have the bow weight checked with
a good scale, it is quite common that the weight written on the bow is
incorrect (especially on cheaper bows). My limbs are made by Hoyt, and
they are 3lbs heavier than they say. I suggest you don't change the
centre shot, this should only be altered using walk-back tuning (see
page 55 of the current Quicks catalogue). 

You could also try using a Dacron string, this won't help the bare shaft
tuning, but it will make the bow slower, and perhaps easier to shoot.

I hope this helps.

Alan Green                      

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From           martin@housenet.demon.co.uk (Martin Leach)
Date           Sat, 27 Jan 1996 20:44:43 GMT

On 23 Jan 1996 11:53:54 GMT, jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
wrote:


>>Hywel Owen
>>'What are those holes in your bow for?
>> Are they to let the wind through?'

Basically yes!! they are.  the holes oin the radian and other
recurves and compounds reduce the physical area of the bow
and thus if shooting in a wind the force exerted on the bow
by the wind is reduced

it has to be one of the <slight> advantages to shooting in the wind! 
                
           Martin Leach    

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