Basic arrow flight question



From: mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 3 Nov 1995 10:10:02 GMT


Russ Ackermann (russ@onyx.southwind.net) wrote:
> : That seems to be the theory! I think that many archers arrows have done a
> : 1/3 rotation before they have even left the bow (typically first 8-9" of
> : flight.

>   This statement is FALSE! An arrow can NOT spin until it has left the 
> string!!! How is an arrow going to spin when it is indexed on the string?
>  Use your brain. Do not listen to everything you hear.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   Excuse me brains, never heard of the new ball-bearing-suspended nocks. 
   They're small ACE nocks with even smaller ball-bearings on the outside
   that fit into the shaft, giving you almost frictionless rotation of
   the arrow even when indexed on the string.

I think we have a problem in defining _when_ an arrow has left the bow;

Definition 1. 
   An arrow has left the bow when it has no more contact with the string.

Definition 2. 
   An arrow has left the bow when it clears the sight window.

Do we have to vote on which definition is correct ? I vote for 2 in which
case it _IS_ possible for an arrow to spin _BEFORE_ it has left the _BOW_
(Please read this very carefully, it says: before it has left the bow, NOT
before it has left the string!!)

I'm sorry, its still early and I haven't had my coffee yet !

Greetings,

        -Marcel van Apeldoorn 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 3 Nov 1995 10:21:10 GMT

angus@harlqn.co.uk (Angus Duggan) writes:

>In article <478j4t$ki5@opal.southwind.net> russ@onyx.southwind.net (Russ
Ackermann) writes:

>>: That seems to be the theory! I think that many archers arrows have done a
>>: 1/3 rotation before they have even left the bow (typically first 8-9" of
>>: flight.
>>
>>  This statement is FALSE! An arrow can NOT spin until it has left the 
>> string!!! How is an arrow going to spin when it is indexed on the string?
>> Use your brain. Do not listen to everything you hear.

Well if it's still attached to the string it's not in flight is it? Left
the bow does not mean cleared the string, there is a big difference! Use
your brain and read what people write.

>I recently checked this by looking at the Beiter high-speed video (The Way to
>the Centre), because I was worried about clearance. On that video, none of the
>arrows, whether fletched with feathers, spin wings or normal vanes, had even
>started rotating when the nock cleared the riser.

That's interesting, I've only ever seen brief snippets of said video. I
thought however that the Easton slow mo video showed rotation but I'm
prepared to be wrong on that one too.

Question tho: How come some archers can only get fletches to clear when
they rotate the nock so that the fletching that is not clearing is
pointing straight at the button or sometime rest?

If the button was cleared completely through paradox then the fletches
would clear in all positions (which actually is what mine do). So if the
shaft doesn't rotate how does it get that spin wing past the button?

The other point is why would the arrow begin to spin? As soon as the
arrow is in flight, ie left the string any spin induced by the fletches
is going to apply itself to the arrow. Why would it wait? Is the arrow
going too fast so the vanes have zero effect? If so why is there no
difference between a 160 fps recurve and a 290 fps compound?

Lets face it, anyone who has heard an arrow with spin wings on it go
past knows those little buggers are spining and pretty fast too, so when
does the spining start if it's not as soon as the arrow leaves the
string.

My only thought is that it doesn't take very long for the arrow to clear
the bow (1/50 s?) and in this time the rotation is as yet imperceivable?
In which case what are the archers who get rotation doing to get it?
Loose? Can you impart initial rotation on the arrow from the loose?

Mmmmmm, can of worms to be opened methinks!

I don't know the answer, from other peoples experiences I assumed they
did but if they don't what are those other people experiencing??!?

John Dickson,(aka Stretch)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: russ@onyx.southwind.net (Russ Ackermann)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 3 Nov 1995 17:14:07 GMT

 :    Excuse me brains, never heard of the new ball-bearing-suspended nocks. 
 :    They're small ACE nocks with even smaller ball-bearings on the outside
 :    that fit into the shaft, giving you almost frictionless rotation of
 :    the arrow even when indexed on the string.

             No, I have not.

:    An arrow has left the bow when it clears the sight window.

     Watch some high speed film. I rest my case.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
From: tichenor@pa881a.inland.com
Date: 3 Nov 95 09:33:49 CDT


In article <473h70$hl8@cwis.isu.edu>, warrenr@env.esrf.isu.edu (Ronald Warren)
writes:
> 
> I am not an archer but was asked this question and 
> thought I'd get the answer from the experts.
> 
> Basic question: does your arrow spin during flight? Our two 
> thoughts were that (1)yes they spin because that would lend
> stability through flight (like a spiral for a football) or,
> (2) they don't, the fletching gives the arrow stability.
> 
> If they don't spin, does your arrow always strike same side
> up as when fired?  How much turnover is normal?  
> 
> Thanks for any feedback.
> 
> Ron Warren

        Yes, the arrow spins during flight for exactly the reason you stated.
And, the fletching also serves to stabilize the flight.  Arrows will spin
on loosing regardless of fletching used - either straight in line with the
shaft or wrapped around it at a slight angle in a helical manner.  I have
been told that even an unfletched (bare) shaft will also spin.

Mike A. Tichenor 
   (Opinions herin are mine - not that of my employer)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: basic arrow flight question
Date:          Sun, 05 Nov 1995 06:47:23 GMT
From:          dstites@ncia.com (David Stites)


jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson) wrote:

>angus@harlqn.co.uk (Angus Duggan) writes:

>>In article <478j4t$ki5@opal.southwind.net> russ@onyx.southwind.net (Russ Ackermann) writes:

>>>: That seems to be the theory! I think that many archers arrows have done a
>>>: 1/3 rotation before they have even left the bow (typically first 8-9" of
>>>: flight.
>>>
>>>  This statement is FALSE! An arrow can NOT spin until it has left the 
>>> string!!! How is an arrow going to spin when it is indexed on the string?
>>> Use your brain. Do not listen to everything you hear.

>Well if it's still attached to the string it's not in flight is it? Left
>the bow does not mean cleared the string, there is a big difference! Use
>your brain and read what people write.

>>I recently checked this by looking at the Beiter high-speed video (The Way to
>>the Centre), because I was worried about clearance. On that video, none of the
>>arrows, whether fletched with feathers, spin wings or normal vanes, had even
>>started rotating when the nock cleared the riser.

>That's interesting, I've only ever seen brief snippets of said video. I
>thought however that the Easton slow mo video showed rotation but I'm
>prepared to be wrong on that one too.

>Question tho: How come some archers can only get fletches to clear when
>they rotate the nock so that the fletching that is not clearing is
>pointing straight at the button or sometime rest?

>If the button was cleared completely through paradox then the fletches
>would clear in all positions (which actually is what mine do). So if the
>shaft doesn't rotate how does it get that spin wing past the button?

>The other point is why would the arrow begin to spin? As soon as the
>arrow is in flight, ie left the string any spin induced by the fletches
>is going to apply itself to the arrow. Why would it wait? Is the arrow
>going too fast so the vanes have zero effect? If so why is there no
>difference between a 160 fps recurve and a 290 fps compound?

>Lets face it, anyone who has heard an arrow with spin wings on it go
>past knows those little buggers are spining and pretty fast too, so when
>does the spining start if it's not as soon as the arrow leaves the
>string.

>My only thought is that it doesn't take very long for the arrow to clear
>the bow (1/50 s?) and in this time the rotation is as yet imperceivable?
>In which case what are the archers who get rotation doing to get it?
>Loose? Can you impart initial rotation on the arrow from the loose?

>Mmmmmm, can of worms to be opened methinks!

>I don't know the answer, from other peoples experiences I assumed they
>did but if they don't what are those other people experiencing??!?

>                               John 
>--
>John Dickson,(aka Stretch)     Stylist Supreme, Carbon Foam 45#
>Multimedia Guru?               Stylist Stabilisers, Arten Olympic
>University of Edinburgh                FF S4 10 Strand, ACE 400 L4 32.5"

It seems to me that the fletching will try to impart spin on the arrow
as soon as it leaves the string, but inertia will cause a delay in the
transfer of energy to the arrow. Also, the string does not stop at the
brace height but continues past that point some distance before
rebounding back to the brace height. Thus, the fletching is almost at
the rest before clearing the string. Then with the delay caused by
inertia the arrow is clear of the bow before starting to rotate.
Good shooting,

David Stites

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jagj@rhyolite.win-uk.net (John  Jones)
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 08:27:08 GMT
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question


 In article <47cqem$hqs@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, John Dickson
(jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk) writes:

>Lets face it, anyone who has heard an arrow with spin wings on it go
>past knows those little buggers are spinning and pretty
>fast too, so when does the spinning start if it's not as
>soon as the arrow leaves the string.

But does the spinning (if they do spin) actually contribute
anything? I personally doubt that an arrow can (or can be
made to) spin fast enough to be stabilised gyroscopically,
like a rifle bullet.  I have never been able to believe in
spinwings, because the comments in the catalogues are such a
load of cobblers.  "Trapping and compressing the air",
indeed!  If spinwings really did this, the drag would
destroy the arrow's performance.  You have to remember that
the energy needed to spin the arrow is subtracted from the
energy which propels the arrow forwards.

In fact, arrows, like jumbo jets, are stabilised in flight
by the tail fins moving the aerodynamic centre of pressure
behind the centre of gravity. They don't *need* to rotate
at all.

The *major* factor in arrow stability is, in reality, a
clean loose and a properly tuned bow.  If you shoot
correctly, you don't need large vanes - mine are the
smallest (flat) vanes I could find.  One of my clubmates
recently caused much innocent amusement by shooting an
unfletched arrow into the gold at 60 yards.

Having said all that, has anyone done any genuine
scientific work (wind tunnel etc) on arrow flight and
stability? I for one would be interested to see the
results.

John Jones  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Bruce <dib@dra.hmg.gb>
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 8 Nov 1995 08:44:38 GMT


jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson) wrote:
>mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn) writes:
>>   Excuse me brains, never heard of the new ball-bearing-suspended nocks. 
>>   They're small ACE nocks with even smaller ball-bearings on the outside
>>   that fit into the shaft, giving you almost frictionless rotation of
>>   the arrow even when indexed on the string.
>
>Cool, were do you get them 8)

I don't know about those, which sound really neat (and expensive!), but
Alternative Sporting Services [they've already been plugged on this newsgroup;
I'm just a customer, though I do know the guys involved], have "Ambo" nocks
which sound slightly similar though perhaps less sophisticated.  These consist
of a ball that fits onto the string as a nocking point, with a socket on the
end of the (UNI) nock.  The idea, I guess, is free(ish) rotation on the string
(perhaps in a similar sense to Beiter nocks, but in both planes?).  I got one
to gawp at it, but I've not tried them yet.  

    David Bruce

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 8 Nov 1995 10:43:08 GMT


russ@onyx.southwind.net (Russ Ackermann) writes:

> :    Excuse me brains, never heard of the new ball-bearing-suspended nocks. 
> :    They're small ACE nocks with even smaller ball-bearings on the outside
> :    that fit into the shaft, giving you almost frictionless rotation of
> :    the arrow even when indexed on the string.

>             No, I have not.

My, my did we get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning B(

>:    An arrow has left the bow when it clears the sight window.

>     Watch some high speed film. I rest my case.

But have you ever watched high speed film of a bow that isn't set up
properly?? The general consensus seems to be that an arrow has left the
bow when it clears the sight window (or any other part of the bow it *may*
come into contact with).

John Dickson,(aka Stretch) 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 8 Nov 1995 12:52:25 GMT


bakimsey@aol.com (BAKimsey) writes:

>The first guy said it spins before it leaves the BOW, not the STRING.  In
>other words, it begins spinning in that 3-4" space between the string and
>the face of the bow. Watch the film by Hoyt and you can clearly see the
>arrow beginning to spin as it goes through the arrow rest.

Yippee! I knew I'd seen it somewhere. Unfortunately their is no clear
rotation on the Bieter video. Which Hoyt video is it on? I guess it
seems to be boiling down to any rotation in the arrow that soon is more
influenced by the archer than the bow setup.

 John Dickson,(aka Stretch)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: angus@harlqn.co.uk (Angus Duggan)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:18:13 GMT


In article <47cppq$ggr@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl
(Marcel van Apeldoorn) writes:
   I think we have a problem in defining _when_ an arrow has left the bow;

   Definition 1. 
      An arrow has left the bow when it has no more contact with the string.

   Definition 2. 
      An arrow has left the bow when it clears the sight window.

   Do we have to vote on which definition is correct ? I vote for 2 in which
   case it _IS_ possible for an arrow to spin _BEFORE_ it has left the _BOW_
   (Please read this very carefully, it says: before it has left the bow, NOT
   before it has left the string!!)

I'd go with definition 2, in which case it is *possible* for the arrow to
spin, but in practice it doesn't really happen. Have a look at some high-speed
video; the arrow clears the bow in a *very* short time, and the vanes haven't
had time to start the spin.

Angus Duggan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bakimsey@aol.com (BAKimsey)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 6 Nov 1995 14:18:37 -0500


In article <478j4t$ki5@opal.southwind.net>, russ@onyx.southwind.net (Russ
Ackermann) writes:

>: That seems to be the theory! I think that many archers arrows have done a
>: 1/3 rotation before they have even left the bow (typically first 8-9" of
>: flight.
>   
>  This statement is FALSE! An arrow can NOT spin until it has left the 
> string!!! How is an arrow going to spin when it is indexed on the string?
> Use your brain. Do not listen to everything you hear.

The first guy said it spins before it leaves the BOW, not the STRING.  In
other words, it begins spinning in that 3-4" space between the string and
the face of the bow. Watch the film by Hoyt and you can clearly see the
arrow beginning to spin as it goes through the arrow rest.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Bruce <dib@dra.hmg.gb>
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 8 Nov 1995 08:44:51 GMT


jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson) wrote:
>mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn) writes:
>>   Excuse me brains, never heard of the new ball-bearing-suspended nocks. 
>>   They're small ACE nocks with even smaller ball-bearings on the outside
>>   that fit into the shaft, giving you almost frictionless rotation of
>>   the arrow even when indexed on the string.
>
>Cool, were do you get them 8)

I don't know about those, which sound really neat (and expensive!), but
Alternative Sporting Services [they've already been plugged on this newsgroup;
I'm just a customer, though I do know the guys involved], have "Ambo" nocks
which sound slightly similar though perhaps less sophisticated.  These consist
of a ball that fits onto the string as a nocking point, with a socket on the
end of the (UNI) nock.  The idea, I guess, is free(ish) rotation on the string
(perhaps in a similar sense to Beiter nocks, but in both planes?).  I got one
to gawp at it, but I've not tried them yet.  

    David Bruce

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: russ@onyx.southwind.net (Russ Ackermann)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 9 Nov 1995 07:17:59 GMT


 : >:    An arrow has left the bow when it clears the sight window.
        
                 I agree. I did not think anyone would think otherwise.
                 The arrows still do not spin until out in front of the bow.
                 The fletching does not impart the spin to the arrow 
                 until it overcomes the force of the arrow not spinning.
                 This takes time ( this varies with mass of arrows,ect).
                 But it is still safe to say. In most bows the arrows
                 do not spin until out in front of the bow.


: But have you ever watched high speed film of a bow that isn't set up
 : properly?

                Yes, it is not a pretty sight.
                As far as the guy setting up his arrow so it should have
                had clearance problems, that is most likely Archer's 
                Parodox.( The shaft flexing away from the rest, in this 
                case.) I do not understand why all the flames. Yes I was too
                harsh. I'm sorry for that. 
                This is not a reason to tell me I'm stupid. Those of you who
                know me know this was not my style. I should have 
                taken the time to explain my point better. We are all guilty
                of that now and then. I have met many good people and 
                archers here. Now I have had some experiences with some 
                not so great people. I have enjoyed this group. Let's 
                keep it friendly.
                See Ya

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                       
From: mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 9 Nov 1995 08:24:20 GMT


Angus Duggan (angus@harlqn.co.uk) wrote:
>>    Do we have to vote on which definition is correct ? I vote for 2 in which
>>    case it _IS_ possible for an arrow to spin _BEFORE_ it has left the _BOW_
>>    (Please read this very carefully, it says: before it has left the bow, NOT
>>    before it has left the string!!)

> I'd go with definition 2, in which case it is *possible* for the arrow to
> spin, but in practice it doesn't really happen. Have a look at some high-speed
> video; the arrow clears the bow in a *very* short time, and the vanes haven't
> had time to start the spin.

I knew this would be the reaction, thats why I said 'possible'. I've
heard some talk about high-speed video's and the only one I've seen 
(the one with high-speed video of Jay Barss) isn't really clear on the subject.

        -Marcel

P.S. Is anybody coming to the TOP Face-to-Face tournament 7-10 December
     in Eindhoven Holland?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David E. Landis" <dlandis@postoffice.ptd.net>
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
To: jagj@rhyolite.win-uk.net
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:01:05 GMT


John, 

As an archery hunter I read through the whole list of articles with much 
fascination!  The next to last article was yours.  In it you hit on 
something I've seen used for years.  No vanes/fletching on field points 
to "tune" bow.

Several shops and "shooting pro's" of my aquaintance have used this 
technique of bare shafts to evaluate the true flight characteristics of 
the bow/arrow combo.  I'm told, though not scientific support, that the 
"...only reason fletching is used is to stabilize broadheads."  Probably 
overly simplistic, but I've shot the bare shaft for tuning and it is a 
very enlightening experience!  Shoots great, when things are set up.  
When not, it enters target (at close range) with whatever malady angle it 
had in flight.  

As for spinning, again, I've not seen the videos.  I've been told over 
and over they don't start to spin until well away from the bow.  After 
all these articles, I'm not convinced, but it is intriguing.  I do 
support that they do spin somewhere with helical fletching.  We use Ames 
Pillow Targets stuffed with old plastic sheeting.  Arrows only penetrate 
a few mere inches and pull out extremely easily...no more bent arrows 
wrestling those foam targets.  Only problems are that since only the 
field points enter the plastic and stop quickly, the points are always 
loose when removed.  Guess the points stop dead and the spin on the arrow 
loosens the point.  Anticdotal evidence, but seems logical...  That, and 
occassionally, the knocks fly off from the sudden stoppage, I guess  
Otherwise, those pillow targets are wonderful and give a most reassuring 
"FWOP" when hit.

Good shooting.

dave

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 13 Nov 1995 09:23:04 GMT


David Bruce (dib@dra.hmg.gb) wrote:
> jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson) wrote:
> >mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn) writes:
> >>   Excuse me brains, never heard of the new ball-bearing-suspended nocks. 
> >>   They're small ACE nocks with even smaller ball-bearings on the outside
> >>   that fit into the shaft, giving you almost frictionless rotation of
> >>   the arrow even when indexed on the string.
> >
> >Cool, were do you get them 8)

> I don't know about those, which sound really neat (and expensive!), but
> Alternative Sporting Services [they've already been plugged on this newsgroup;
> I'm just a customer, though I do know the guys involved], have "Ambo" nocks
> which sound slightly similar though perhaps less sophisticated.  These consist
> of a ball that fits onto the string as a nocking point, with a socket on the
> end of the (UNI) nock.  The idea, I guess, is free(ish) rotation on the string
> (perhaps in a similar sense to Beiter nocks, but in both planes?).  I got one
> to gawp at it, but I've not tried them yet.  

I think I should explain that when I wrote the piece about new-ball-bearing-
suspended nocks, it was early in the morning and I hadn't had my coffee yet.
Besides I was a bit pissed about the comment made on the first article in
this thread, so my reply was supposed to be sarcastic.

But if there's a company out there (perhaps Easton, or Mr. Beiter) who would
like to produce these nocks, I'm willing to _sell_ the idea 8-)

Happy shooting,

 
 Marcel van Apeldoorn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dinebd@central.co.nz (Bruce Dine)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 16 Nov 1995 05:56:03 GMT

In article <68@rhyolite.win-uk.net>, jagj@rhyolite.win-uk.net says...
> 
>In article <47cqem$hqs@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, John Dickson 
(jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk) writes:
>
>>Lets face it, anyone who has heard an arrow with spin wings on it go
>>past knows those little buggers are spinning and pretty
>>fast too, so when does the spinning start if it's not as
>>soon as the arrow leaves the string.
>>
>
>But does the spinning (if they do spin) actually contribute
>anything? I personally doubt that an arrow can (or can be
>made to) spin fast enough to be stabilised gyroscopically,
>like a rifle bullet.  

You are right. Arrows are too long and spin to slow to gain significant 
gyroscopic stability. What spinning does do is it evens out imperfections 
in the arrow so that over the flight of the arrow to the target a bend 
for instance spends an equal amount of time facing down as up.

This is why woodern arrows, which can have many imperfection, require 
large fletchings to grab air and spin the shaft while carbon arrows only 
require small fletchings and can often be shoot with no fletchings at 
all.

-- 
Bye for now,
Bruce
============================================================
So long as the new moon returns in the heaven a bent, 
beautiful bow, so long will the fascination of archery 
keep hold of the hearts of men.
-Maurice Thompson, The Witchery of Archery
===========================================================

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stephan Melin <melin@hlrz24.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de>
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 01:40:53 +0100

In article <47pqm3$1gg@signal.dra.hmg.gb>, David Bruce <dib@dra.hmg.gb> writes:
[SNIP]
|> I don't know about those, which sound really neat (and expensive!), but
|> Alternative Sporting Services [they've already been plugged on this
newsgroup;
|> I'm just a customer, though I do know the guys involved], have "Ambo" nocks
|> which sound slightly similar though perhaps less sophisticated.  These
consist
|> of a ball that fits onto the string as a nocking point, with a socket on the
|> end of the (UNI) nock.  The idea, I guess, is free(ish) rotation on the
string
|> (perhaps in a similar sense to Beiter nocks, but in both planes?).  I got one
|> to gawp at it, but I've not tried them yet.  


About the AMBO nock system:
ball has a hole in it...).
Nocking is done by placing the nock onto the ball (they snap in).
 
The rationale behind this system is, that upon drawing the bow the 
arrow is fixed on the string (if you are using only one nocking point,
the arrow can move a little downwards on the string...).
 
Two people in our club are already using that system and seem to be quite 
happy with it...
 
Best regards and good shooting
 
     Stephan
 
P.S.: AMBO is the name of the manufacturer and I think they also sell them
      directly...
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Subject: Re: basic arrow flight question
Date: 20 Nov 1995 12:59:15 GMT

mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn) writes:

[SNIP, ball bearing nocks?!?!?]

>> >Cool, were do you get them 8)
That was me^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, note the 8) on the end ;-)

>I think I should explain that when I wrote the piece about new-ball-bearing-
>suspended nocks, it was early in the morning and I hadn't had my coffee yet.
>Besides I was a bit pissed about the comment made on the first article in
>this thread, so my reply was supposed to be sarcastic.

Unfortunately the subtlety of the English language is a little too much
for some people who claim it as a first language. I have found this out
before hence my scrawlings are heavily punctuated with:

8) ;) ;-) :-) 8-) %^) etc, it keeps them on track! 8)

Without sarcastic retort the net would be a very dull place.

>But if there's a company out there (perhaps Easton, or Mr. Beiter) who would
>like to produce these nocks, I'm willing to _sell_ the idea 8-)

Nice try but I think most of us want to have some control over our
fletching position when we shoot!

Personally I'm Caffiene free, so I'm always a bit pissed in the morning
(oh yeah and the afternoon and evening)...but all well within the
tollerances of IOC drug tests 8-)


John Dickson,(aka Stretch)

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