Focus on Pin or Target?



From: deadjim@crl.com (Scott Pitman)
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: 31 May 1995 19:37:30 -0700


tichenor@pa881a.inland.com wrote:
:       I'm looking for opinions from some crack shots out there.
: Which do you feel is better, focusing on the pin; or focusing on the
: target?  Does the point of focus vary between shooting bulls-eyes and
: shooting at unmarked kills (as in 3-D)?  I've read conflicting statements
: recently and was just wondering what the popular opinion would be.


: Mike A. Tichenor                     | Internet: Tichenor@PA881a.Inland.com

Mike I have had good luck with looking at the target, Even on 3-D targets.
Normally, I keep the pin or dot in my scope in my secondary vision. To 
justify my method and run the risk of sounding like a braggart I normally 
average on a two day shoot in the 118x range and my average in 3-d on 25 
tgts is 255 w/12's.
good shooting.

George Ryals.

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From: XPROB@lsuvm.sncc.lsu.edu
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 07:38:08 CDT


In article <1995May31.172924.1@pa881a.inland.com>
tichenor@pa881a.inland.com writes:
 
>        I'm looking for opinions from some crack shots out there.
>Which do you feel is better, focusing on the pin; or focusing on the
>target?  Does the point of focus vary between shooting bulls-eyes and
>shooting at unmarked kills (as in 3-D)?  I've read conflicting statements
>recently and was just wondering what the popular opinion would be.
>
 
I don't know about the "crack shot" part of it, but I do have an idea
of what is supposed to happen. If you are using a peep sight with
pins, you aren't supposed to have to think the pin and you're supposed
to concentrate on the target. Your mind will naturally guide the pin
toward the center of the peep. The hard part is getting the target
there at the same time as the pin. I have found that if I relax and
let the pin move to the center of the peep, I can then judge if I am
lined up correctly on the target.
 
When you have the pin centered in the peep and have the target sighted
in the peep, you can determine what corrections have to be made.
Correcting for elevation is simple, by moving the arm slightly or
bending at the waist. However, correcting horizontally is more diff-
icult. You must make sure that you are lined up on the target
before drawing the bow. When you have to correct too much from side
to side, it can make you very uncomfortable and tense up muscles
that would normally be relaxed. This can lead to bad form or rushing
a shot.
 
This is just my $.02 and what I have experienced. I do realize
that this may not be corrected in hunting situations, but at the
range and on the 3-D course, it usually can.
 
Errol Robichaux

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From: ih201@cam.ac.uk (Ian Hawke)
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 15:33:13 +0000


In article <1995May31.172924.1@pa881a.inland.com>,
tichenor@pa881a.inland.com wrote:

>         I'm looking for opinions from some crack shots out there.
> Which do you feel is better, focusing on the pin; or focusing on the
> target?  Does the point of focus vary between shooting bulls-eyes and
> shooting at unmarked kills (as in 3-D)?  I've read conflicting statements
> recently and was just wondering what the popular opinion would be.

If you want an odd way of looking at it - focus on neither, as they're not
making the shot. Put the pin near the middle and then forget it ever
existed.

But I think the answer you're looking for is to focus more on the target -
the pin should drop onto it naturally, and you won't be tempted to move
your head looking for it.

Ian

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From: jvitolo@access2.digex.net
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:25:13 -0400


Hi Scott,
        I also focus on the target.  It just seems logical to me
that I should concentrate on what I want to hit.  I am not trying
to hit the pin, so why focus on it.  But I do know people who
shoot quite well focusing on the pin.  It just does not work for me.
The key is determine what works best for you.  By the way, focusing on
the target usually means your pin will appear blurry.  Some archers
cannot accept aiming with a blurry pin.  I place all of my attention on 
the target or the goal.  I allow the pin to float while keeping fixed on 
the bullseye.

Good shooting,

Joe

On 31 May 1995, Scott Pitman wrote:

> tichenor@pa881a.inland.com wrote:
> :     I'm looking for opinions from some crack shots out there.
> : Which do you feel is better, focusing on the pin; or focusing on the
> : target?  Does the point of focus vary between shooting bulls-eyes and
> : shooting at unmarked kills (as in 3-D)?  I've read conflicting statements
> : recently and was just wondering what the popular opinion would be.

> : Mike A. Tichenor

> Mike I have had good luck with looking at the target, Even on 3-D targets.
> Normally, I keep the pin or dot in my scope in my secondary vision. To 
> justify my method and run the risk of sounding like a braggart I normally 
> average on a two day shoot in the 118x range and my average in 3-d on 25 
> tgts is 255 w/12's.
> good shooting.
> George Ryals.

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From: ldiehr@eth233.eld.ford.com (L S Diehr (Lawrence))
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: 1 Jun 1995 15:22:22 GMT


tichenor@pa881a.inland.com wrote:
:       I'm looking for opinions from some crack shots out there.
: Which do you feel is better, focusing on the pin; or focusing on the
: target?  Does the point of focus vary between shooting bulls-eyes and
: shooting at unmarked kills (as in 3-D)?  I've read conflicting statements
: recently and was just wondering what the popular opinion would be.

: -- 
: --- Mike }}}===>
: Mike A. Tichenor                     | Internet: Tichenor@PA881a.Inland.com


Focus on the target and practice getting that pin in the way.  Marksmanship is
the
same no mater what the choice of weapon: bow, pistol, rifle or shotgun. 
Practice
shooting with both eyes open (this improves balance) with good posture and a
straight
draw (no sky-humping).  Concentrate on the point of intended impact.  Practice
"calling your shots", that is decide where on the target you think the arrow
is - before you look.  This works better with the paper targets than on 3D
animals.
Concentrate on your breathing, breath control, and oxygenation.  The small
muscles 
you use to stabilize and control the bow go into anerobic respiration quite
quickly,
particularly under the stress of competitive shooting (read that LOTS of arrows
shot).

Generally, for target rounds, a reticle that uses a gap is better than one that
uses a point - it is easier to surround the target than to pick a precise spot.
If the center of the opening is where you are sighted for, then that is where
the 
arrow will go.  

I shoot a "scope" for hunting, 3D and target rounds.  Actually, I shoot a scope
for the target rounds, and remove the lens for everything else.  The consistent
part is the reticle.  The SuperScope housing allows me to use wires to form any
type reticle I want from crosshairs, single post, converging posts, or any 
combination thereof.  

By personal favorite is converging posts from all four directions.  The exact 
opening between them is determined by the target round of the season, but is 
on the order of 3/16 inch.  I use a luminescent paint on the tips of the posts 
to enhance contrast against black backgrounds, and to help in low light
situations 
(such as shooting a field round after work - those last two or three targets in
the pines get really hard to find in a 4-power scope).

I hope this helps rather than hinders your progress.

--
Larry Diehr

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From: pdillard@ix.netcom.com (Peter Dillard)
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: 2 Jun 1995 00:49:06 GMT


I recently got some videotapes by Ed Eliason and Jay Barrs (crack 
shots!)  Ed focuses on the pin and Jay focuses on the target.

I have done both and either can work but the two give very different 
psychological effects.  As a coach I insist that my team maintain an 
'awareness' of the sight's location relative to the target (aiming).  
Most often this means focusing on the pin because there is a tendency to 
move your point of attention to the target as you shoot in order to see 
where the arrow hits.  This change often disrupts the 'aim'.

Peter Dillard

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From: Alec Hall <alec@tlsl.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: 3 Jun 1995 21:23:25 +0100
Reply-To: alec@tlsl.demon.co.uk


Mike said 
>       I'm looking for opinions from some crack shots out there.
> Which do you feel is better, focusing on the pin; or focusing on the
> target?  
-------------------cut--------------
I'm NO crack shot but my opinion for what it's worth, is that it's the
target that's all important. The pin is an aid to getting the arrow to 
the target. Even imagine the arrow hitting the target? Well, it's a thought.


|  Alec Hall    EMail alec@tlsl.demon.co.uk  |

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From: angus@harlqn.co.uk (Angus Duggan)
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 16:35:25 GMT


>tichenor@pa881a.inland.com wrote:
>:      I'm looking for opinions from some crack shots out there.
>: Which do you feel is better, focusing on the pin; or focusing on the
>: target?  Does the point of focus vary between shooting bulls-eyes and
>: shooting at unmarked kills (as in 3-D)?  I've read conflicting statements
>: recently and was just wondering what the popular opinion would be.

Most of the advice I've seen (for target archery, but probably applicable to
all forms of archery) is to focus on the target. Some research mentioned in
"The Glade" magazine recently mentioned that the focus point was closer to the
target for better archers.

Of course, I can't focus of the pin anyway, because I don't have one! (I shoot
with an open ring.)


Angus Duggan

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From: angus@harlqn.co.uk (Angus Duggan)
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 13:44:37 GMT


In article <3qn0vv$os7@gozer.inri.com> Gary Claunch <gclaunch@inri.com> writes:
>If you are using a sight, always focus on the front sight.  If you focus

No no no! I know this'll start a flame war, but I can't help saying exactly
the opposite. If you're talking about hunting or 3D *only*, please say
so, because every top *target* archer I've talked to has said that focussing
on the target is best, and this is borne out by my own experience. Many of the
top archers use a plain open ring as a sight.

>on the target, then you are not focusing on where the the sight and
>therefore not where the bow or gun is pointing.  If you are using a sight

If you have a ring sight of some form, you'll find that your eye is
exceptionally good at telling if the target is in the centre of the ring. You
just need to look at the target, and your body will automatically centre the
ring around it.

>I try to keep both eyes open so that I can see the target or animal, but
>only the front sight pin (i use a peep sight also) is in focus.  The
>animal or target and the rear sight are fuzzy.

I do agree about keeping both eyes open; visual acuity is better with both
eyes open, and it doesn't cause you to screw up your face, altering your
anchor point.


Angus Duggan

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From: ldiehr@eth233.eld.ford.com (L S Diehr (Lawrence))
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: 7 Jun 1995 19:19:16 GMT


Angus Duggan (angus@harlqn.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <3qn0vv$os7@gozer.inri.com> Gary Claunch <gclaunch@inri.com>
writes:
: >If you are using a sight, always focus on the front sight.  If you focus

: No no no! I know this'll start a flame war, but I can't help saying exactly
: the opposite. If you're talking about hunting or 3D *only*, please say
: so, because every top *target* archer I've talked to has said that focussing
: on the target is best, and this is borne out by my own experience. Many of the
: top archers use a plain open ring as a sight.

Any sight will do, this is a particular point of personal preference.  Pins
work better in some situations, aperatures in others. The point is to
concentrate
on the TARGET and maintain that central point of concentration.  An aperature
sight doesn't work well when the point of aim is not delineated (such as on a 
live animal), but a pin does.  

: >on the target, then you are not focusing on where the the sight and
: >therefore not where the bow or gun is pointing.  If you are using a sight

: If you have a ring sight of some form, you'll find that your eye is
: exceptionally good at telling if the target is in the centre of the ring. You
: just need to look at the target, and your body will automatically centre the
: ring around it.

International rifle competition uses an aperature sight for the small bore
shoots.
The target is centered within the aperature, and the bullet goes in the center
of
the aperature.

: >I try to keep both eyes open so that I can see the target or animal, but
: >only the front sight pin (i use a peep sight also) is in focus.  The
: >animal or target and the rear sight are fuzzy.

: I do agree about keeping both eyes open; visual acuity is better with both
: eyes open, and it doesn't cause you to screw up your face, altering your
: anchor point.

Yup.


: Angus Duggan

Angus has it all on target.  Even in a hunting situation, both eyes open
is a far better way to go.  Focusing on the target is also the only way
to go, even with firearms - both iron sights and with advanced optics.

This is an aspect of marksmanship that transfers from firearms to archery
exactly as I have been taught, and now teach.

The target may get a little fuzzy, but the center of it is still in the 
middle of that fuzzy ball down there.  The fuzzyness of the target is 
more related to your age and visual acuity than to selecting a point to 
focus on.

Larry Diehr

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From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: 6 Jun 1995 18:56:02 GMT


Alec Hall (alec@tlsl.demon.co.uk) wrote:
[SNIP]
: the target. Even imagine the arrow hitting the target? Well, it's a thought.

>From what I understand, some archers do shoot by this method.  Plus, I think
Samurai archers were trained to shoot this way, by imagining the entire
flight of the arrow from release to impact in the middle of the target BEFORE
the actual release takes place.  Anyone familar with Kyudo want to comment on
this?

Bill B.

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From: melin@cm5cofis.gmd.de (Stephan Melin)
Subject: Re: Focus on Pin or Target?
Date: 12 Jun 1995 21:36:47 GMT
Reply-To: melin@hlrz24.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de


In article <3r4u3k$cqs@eccdb1.pms.ford.com>, ldiehr@eth233.eld.ford.com (L S
Diehr (Lawrence)) writes:
[SNIP]
|> Angus has it all on target.  Even in a hunting situation, both eyes open
|> is a far better way to go.  Focusing on the target is also the only way
|> to go, even with firearms - both iron sights and with advanced optics.
|> 
|> This is an aspect of marksmanship that transfers from firearms to archery
|> exactly as I have been taught, and now teach.

That is really amazing! A member of our club who also shoots pistol and always 
claims vehemently that one has to concentrate on the sight and that this also
applies to archery. 
So far I have been concentrating on the target, but since I am not shooting as
well as I want to, I considered switching. - Now I am cured ;-)

Best regrads and good shooting

    Stephan


P.S.: However the most astonishing thing is that the wheelies are starting to 
      write excellent posts ;-)

Stephan Melin                   

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