New world record, nearly

New world record, nearly
From: Claes.Colmeus@farm.lu.se (Claes Colmeus)
Date: 1995/12/19


Magnus Petterson did it again. Last sunday, in the South Sweden Champs, he
equalled his world record from Birmingham, 596.

I was lucky enough to share target with him. He always uses a threespot face,
of course, otherwise his heavy artillery would fill up the 10. Counting his
scores was really easy, it's not often you have so many nice round figures to
add.

He was shooting his Browning Olympian, CCK limbs 45 - 49#, set at maximum, and
drawing an extra inch or so, ending at 53#. His stabs were all easton carbon,
one long and a shortie above, and a swingbar with two more long ones. Very
good setup for a bow stand too. His aluminium logs had turkey feathers, and
his tuning seemed perfect, of course.

He started with 2x29, both 9's on the second spot, changed his second arrow
for a new one, and then continued with 16x30. So with 6 arrows to go, he had
lost only two points. Then came a 9! He then showed what makes a champion and
placed the next two exactly centered. Somehow he seems to know exactly what
goes wrong and can correct his mistakes immediately. Only once I saw him a
little bewildered, when both number 1 and 2 were low and to the right ( they
were both 10's anyway) and consequently he placed number three high and to the
left (another 10). With 3 more arrows to go he still had a chance to improve
his record, but number 2 was a 9 and there was a slight sound of
disappointment from 115 archers. Only Magnus seemed unaffected and shot
another 10, ending at 596.

Most of his 10's were well within the line, as far as I remember only two
could have been 9's if he had shot (much) thinner arrows. The question
remains whether he could have gained more by using a lighter bow, easier to
aim and shoot and less demanding. Well, he must have given that matter a
thought or two himself. I know my answer, 33# and several clear 8's instead of
linebreaking 10's.

We all had a good chance to study his shooting, 'cause he used
the time slot very well, normally shooting his third arrow well into the
yellow light period, often alone on the shooting line. If he had had to let
down on one of the earlier shots, he started to draw the third one on yellow,
with no noticeable hurry.

When he was shooting, he was alone in the world with the bow and the target,
totally concentrated, immediately after the third arrow relaxed and a normal
nice guy, slightly modest.

He handled his 53# with natural ease, it was impossible to see any movement in
the bow when he held it drawn. Then came a very quiet shot and his bow and
hand moved to the position you can see in any good book on archery. The arrow
flew straight to where it should be. The only time you could get an indication
on his bow weight was whan he had to let down, that movement lacked his usual
smoothness.

Watching Magnus (suitable name, latin for "the great") shoot will show you
that archery is incredibly easy, until you try yourself. We all got a lesson
on perfect archery, although I'm not sure we really were able to absorb it
all, just staring at him in admiration.

My own shooting? Well , I won , twice (I ended with 2x30, when he
shot 2x29) Unfortunately that means he won 16 times, (2 draws) and his total
was 49 better than mine. Not a chance! I also shoot an Olympian, could it be
his CCK limbs? ;-)

Claes

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Re: New world record, nearly
From: Omar Almaini <omar@ast.cam.ac.uk>
Date: 1995/12/19


(Thanks Claes BTW, that was an excellent report. Does wonders for
my perceived goals to read about archers shooting 590+ FITAs!)

I was wondering if anyone else has any comments on the use of
long swingbar stabilisers. As far as I know only two top of the
top internationals use them (Goran Bjerandahl and Magnus Petterson),
but both with great effect. Most recurve archers shoot the seemingly
standard set-up of v-bar & twins with a long-rod and only slight
variations on that theme (eg. adding an extra short top rod).
The swingbar system on the other hand seems radically different.

As with most things in our sport I suppose it all comes down to feel
and personal preference, but I wonder how many other archers will now
be changing their set-up over the indoor season....

Omar

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Re: New world record, nearly
From: jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Date: 1995/12/19

Omar Almaini <omar@ast.cam.ac.uk> writes:

>(Thanks Claes BTW, that was an excellent report. Does wonders for
>my perceived goals to read about archers shooting 590+ FITAs!)

Makes you think huh? Boring Bastards :-) It's descrimination not to use the
whole target.

>I was wondering if anyone else has any comments on the use of
>long swingbar stabilisers. As far as I know only two top of the
>top internationals use them (Goran Bjerandahl and Magnus Petterson),
>but both with great effect.

Have you tried to but one in this country? You used to be able to buy
them in the 80's and they were 50 quid then, I hate to think how much
they'd be now!

I'd love to try one but unfortunately I can't :-(

Problems seem to be that they're heavy in the hand (remember to get full
effect you need to dangle two longrods out of it!) and they take a while
to settle down once you get to full draw which adds a few seconds onto
your aiming time...I have suspicions that they are better suited to
indoor shooting. Don't forget that you'll need a bigger case too.

Good points? Very stable once you get to full draw (if you're strong
enough!) and they provide a lot of damping to the system. I suppose you
can throw away your bowstand too!

>Most recurve archers shoot the seemingly
>standard set-up of v-bar & twins with a long-rod and only slight
>variations on that theme (eg. adding an extra short top rod).
>The swingbar system on the other hand seems radically different.

I think it's noticeable that Magnus Pettersson is undoubtedly the no 1
archer in the world indoors, he seems to win everything and when he
doesn't it was Goran who beat him! Yes, Mr Pettersson still has some
pretty excellent results outside too but he's not nearly so dominant.

Can style alone really make someone that good indoors but only a "could
win but I wouldn't expect it" outside? Of course he seems to have nerves
of steel (except maybe for 9,9,9.... :-( ) and that always helps in this
sport these days!

I suppose I could get a swing bar from Bow Pro in Sweden but could I
afford another 2 longrods? Maybe not.

John

PS Petra Ericsson used a swing bar too before she changed to Compound,
again she was Swedish, again she seemed to be better indoors than out
(relatively speaking!) Maybe Swedes are just bloody good indoors?


John Dickson,(aka Stretch)

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Re: New world record, nearly
From: s.oosthoek@student.utwente.nl (Simon Oosthoek)
Date: 1995/12/19

In article <4b6h16$1q5@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, omar@ast.cam.ac.uk says...
>
>(Thanks Claes BTW, that was an excellent report. Does wonders for
>my perceived goals to read about archers shooting 590+ FITAs!)

Can you image what it's like seeing it happen right in front of you ;-)

>I was wondering if anyone else has any comments on the use of
>long swingbar stabilisers. As far as I know only two top of the
>top internationals use them (Goran Bjerandahl and Magnus Petterson),
>but both with great effect. Most recurve archers shoot the seemingly
>standard set-up of v-bar & twins with a long-rod and only slight
>variations on that theme (eg. adding an extra short top rod).
>The swingbar system on the other hand seems radically different.

Both were at the face-to-face ten days ago. A couple of members of our
Club had an "excursion" to Eindhoven (2:45 hours by train!) to see the
finals.
When everyone was going home, we had to wait for our bus, so we had a
chance to exchange a few brief words with the winner (Magnus Petterson).
I also got to hold his bow with the swingbar on it, it felt very stable,
for a large factor caused by the great weight at the ACE longrods (3 of
them!). The balance is very nice, especially after the shot (or just not
drawn) because it doesn't fall completely forward.
The funny thing is, when you hold it at full draw, the weight is hardly
noticable.

A very nice thing about the swingbar is that it is pobably the best (and
most expensive, with 3 ACE longrods) bowstand you can find ;-)

>As with most things in our sport I suppose it all comes down to feel
>and personal preference, but I wonder how many other archers will now
>be changing their set-up over the indoor season....
>

I think I could get used to shooting it ;-) However, I won't switch to a
swingbar, mostly because of the great cost. (I _am_ a poor student ;-)

cu and good shooting,

Simon.

(BTW, as soon as the scanner is operational again, we will put some
pictures of the face-to-face on the website of Sagittarius:
http://wwwtios.cs.utwente.nl/~bos/sagi)

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Re: New world record, nearly
From: Claes.Colmeus@farm.lu.se (Claes Colmeus)
Date: 1995/12/21

In article <4b6odm$4og@driene.student.utwente.nl> s.oosthoek@student.utwente.nl (Simon Oosthoek) writes:

<snip>
(... swingbars...)
<snip>

>The funny thing is, when you hold it at full draw, the weight is hardly
>noticable.

Well, not really surprising. In fact, you don't use your bow arm muscles to
lift your bow when drawn. You use the arm as a lever, and keep it up by
pulling the string. Loading your bow with a few extra longrods will simply
change the bow arm's position slightly upwards, thus creating more lift to
compensate for the increased weight. The pull will be the same, determined
only by the bow and the draw lenght, but the extra weight will cause a slight
extra push on your bow hand, hardly noticeable compared to those 53 # or so.

>A very nice thing about the swingbar is that it is probably the best (and
>most expensive, with 3 ACE longrods) bowstand you can find ;-)

I agree, and most Swedish archers must be rich ( or rather, have been rich,
before they invested their fortune in those bowstands). At the South Sweden
Champs, at least 50% of the bows, except the compounds, were standing like
giant prehistoric insects on three legs. They look very much like mantises,
awaiting their prey.

>>As with most things in our sport I suppose it all comes down to feel
>>and personal preference, but I wonder how many other archers will now
>>be changing their set-up over the indoor season....>>

See paragraph above. Most of them use swing bars outdoors too. Even on field
rounds. A bit awkward in rough terrain though :-)

>I think I could get used to shooting it ;-) However, I won't switch to a
>swingbar, mostly because of the great cost. (I _am_ a poor student ;-)

I use a "conventional" setup (home brew), long rod from an aluminium tube
broomstick and the shorties are 12 mm stainless steel tubes turned down to .5
mm thickness. The weights are turned from stainless steel (scrap pieces of
course), and the fixed angle v-bar is milled from a piece of scrap aluminium
(in fact, it's a broken crank from a mountain bike). I have static balance in
the setup, just like the swingbar guys, I find that convenient. Especially
nice being able to put a right hand finger through one of the holes in the
riser, to manipulate the clicker or put the arrow back on the shelf etc with
the bow in position. One day I may try a swingbar setup too, I have a key to
the cleaning equipment store room at the department here (where the extra
broomsticks are). But first I want to dream up a swing bar design with
low friction and hydraulic damping, not just using the conventional plastic
washer and wing nut.

Speaking (writing) of cost, the Browning Olympian was in abundance at the
champs, not just Magnus and I used it. I counted at least 10 of them.
Curiously, only mine had glass limbs, all others were shooting CCK, at more
than three times the cost. I wonder if I have missed some important point?
Maybe price (not size? ;-) really matters? Seriously, the very day I shoot as
good as my bow does, I may go to CCK too.

>cu and good shooting,

I agree on that point too. Merry Christmas etc to you all.

Claes

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Re: New world record, nearly
From: mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn)
Date: 1995/12/21

John Dickson (jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk) wrote:

> Problems seem to be that they're heavy in the hand (remember to get full
> effect you need to dangle two longrods out of it!) and they take a while
> to settle down once you get to full draw which adds a few seconds onto
> your aiming time...I have suspicions that they are better suited to
> indoor shooting. Don't forget that you'll need a bigger case too.

They can be used to good effect outdoors too, Dutch compound shooter (and
I believe former FITA outdoor world record holder) Ton van Gorp uses
swingbars on his compound. The compound being a shorter bow, his swingbars
are also shorter than the ones used by the Swedes.

Last summer I got one from a local dealer, he had it for over ten years
and nobody wanted it, so he gave it to me. I tried it, and I must admit that
it felt pretty stable, but very heavy. The bow rotates forward very
fast, and last microsecond "corrections" (you know; throwing your bowhand all
over the place) can be tricky, the swing rods can punch out a fellow archer,
or yourself :-)

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas, and a Happy NewYear, with lots of good
shooting.


Marcel van Apeldoorn

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Re: New world record, nearly
From: jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Date: 1995/12/21

mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn) writes:

>John Dickson (jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk) wrote:

<SNIP Swingbars>

>They can be used to good effect outdoors too, Dutch compound shooter (and
>I believe former FITA outdoor world record holder) Ton van Gorp uses
>swingbars on his compound. The compound being a shorter bow, his swingbars
>are also shorter than the ones used by the Swedes.

Becky Pearson was using one at one point too BUT you don't shoot
continuous motion with a compound. I'd suggest that shooting with
continuous motion with a recurve was more consistent...at least outside.

I'm not saying you can't with a swing bar, but it is maybe more
difficult?

>Last summer I got one from a local dealer, he had it for over ten years
>and nobody wanted it, so he gave it to me. I tried it, and I must admit that
>it felt pretty stable, but very heavy. The bow rotates forward very
>fast, and last microsecond "corrections" (you know; throwing your bowhand all
>over the place) can be tricky, the swing rods can punch out a fellow archer,
>or yourself :-)

If you don't want it anymore can I hgave it? How much? Pretty please?

All I want for Christmas is a new swing bar?!?!


John

PS Purely hypothesising and still gagging to try one!
--
John Dickson,(aka Stretch)

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Re: New world record, nearly
From: mvapldrn@dutlsb3.lr.tudelft.nl (Marcel van Apeldoorn)
Date: 1995/12/21

John Dickson (jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk) wrote:

> If you don't want it anymore can I hgave it? How much? Pretty please?

You can come and get it at;

Marcel van Apeldoorn
Hidalgolaan 17
Heerhugowaard (40km north of Amsterdam)
The Netherlands

First come, first served

> All I want for Christmas is a new swing bar?!?!

If you hurry you can make it before X-mas


Marcel van Apeldoorn

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Re: New world record, nearly
From: bo448@torfree.net (Rob Lee)
Date: 1995/12/27

John Dickson (jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk) wrote:
<snip>
: John

: PS Petra Ericsson used a swing bar too before she changed to Compound,
: again she was Swedish, again she seemed to be better indoors than out
: (relatively speaking!) Maybe Swedes are just bloody good indoors?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Perhaps it has something to do with the
length of their winters, a _really_ long
indoor season to practice in :-)
--
Rob Lee


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