Spin Wings


From 100302.3513@compuserve.com (John Mason)
Date Fri, 19 Jan 1996 10:11:31 GMT


Does anyone have any tips on the subject of fletching with these?

Is it recommended to also offset these by one or two degrees or is
it unnecessary?

Looking forward to the do's and don'ts from someone.



John Mason

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From jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Date 19 Jan 1996 12:36:00 GMT



100302.3513@compuserve.com (John Mason) writes:



>Does anyone have any tips on the subject of fletching with these?

I presume you mean other than those written on the packet?

To mark the tape lines on the shaft:
Try using a fine silver or gold paint pen, it works better than a white
pencil (but still comes off). Alternatively a fine indelible pen in
red or purple leaves a permanent mark but it's not so easy to see.

If you're using Bieter nocks either get the adaptor for the fletching
jig or change the nocks to a symetrical nock while drawing the lines
(otherwise you're lines end up all over the shop!)

Remember that when Beman were owned by Mr Brand putting spin wings
on Bemans invalidated the guarantee (since it puts too much torque on
the rear of the arrow or some rubbish like that). Still true now big brother
has taken over?????? ;-)

>Is it recommended to also offset these by one or two degrees or
is it unnecessary?

Put them on straight, otherwise most people find the drag excessive.
There is a natural angle in the Vane so you don't need to induce extra
drag.

You may also want to get some fixing tape for the front and back of
the fletches. (Usually comes in silver of gold) It can stop the front edges
from peeling up over extended periods (which is the only thing I find
irritating about Spin Wings)


I wouldn't mix colours either (eg red, white and blue) since the
different colours are different stiffnesses (although you *probably*
wouldn't notice).

That's about as much drivel as I can come up with at the moment.
 

John Dickson,(aka Stretch) 

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From  OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>

> Does anyone have any tips on the subject of fletching with these?
> 
> Is it recommended to also offset these by one or two degrees or is it
> unnecessary?


Well shot with them for quite a while so here is some things to 
consider.  If you aren't shooting 70m or more I'd say forget it.  They
definatley help in the wind a bit but they require a lot of maintanance. 

I find using Arizona (or any other similar fletch) much better as they
require about zero mainatanance and I know they are o.k. 99.9999999% of 
the time without even looking at them.  That way I can focus more on what
I should be doing rather then worry about my equipment.  With regards to 
how much better spin wings are in the wind, I would probably say that if 
you aren't shooting in the 1320's or if you are'nt shooting a really
low  poundage bow (Where every wind fighting cm helps...) then I wouldn't
bother.  I switched after months of agravation with constantly fixing
them after I saw Jay Barrs shoot a 1320+ on my local range with 
Arizona... obviously they can't be that bad 
:>.  I will admit though that spin wings do look cool... :>

Jonathan

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From force10ten@aol.com (Force10Ten)
Date 19 Jan 1996 13:20:30 -0500

Stretchie wrote:

>Remember that when Beman were owned by Mr Brand putting spin wings on
>Bemans invalidated the guarantee (since it puts too much torque on the
>rear of the arrow or some rubbish like that). Still true now big brother
>has taken over?????? ;-)



Stretchie, I think Mr. Brand just didn't like spin-wings. I never heard
about this torque issue- I'm sure an archer puts infinitely more torque on
a shaft pulling it from a target than the arrow would ever see from vane
rotational effects, even if the arrow were shot into stramit. Many Beman
shooters have used Spin-wings with no problems.

As for the "big brother" thing, remember, Stretchie, we're
watching you......  :)

-geo.

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From jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Date 22 Jan 1996 11:57:42 GMT


force10ten@aol.com (Force10Ten) writes:


<Snip, my rantings about Roland Brand>


>Stretchie, I think Mr. Brand just didn't like spin-wings. I never heard
>about this torque issue- I'm sure an archer puts infinitely more torque on
>a shaft pulling it from a target than the arrow would ever see from vane
>rotational effects, even if the arrow were shot into stramit. Many Beman
>shooters have used Spin-wings with no problems.

Does anybody else remember this in I think the Glade, circa 1990? The
funny thing was that most of the best Koreans at the time were shooting
Bemans with Spin Wings! Mr Brand was also trying to push Beman Soft
Fletches!

>As for the "big brother" thing, remember, Stretchie,
we're watching
>you......  :)

Oh Oh, now I'm real scared ;-)    

John Dickson,(aka Stretch) 

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From jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Date 22 Jan 1996 12:37:00 GMT


OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu> writes:


>Well shot with them for quite a while so here is some things to
>consider.  If you aren't shooting 70m or more I'd say forget it. They
>definatley help in the wind a bit but they require a lot of maintanance.
>I find using Arizona (or any other similar fletch) much better as they
>require about zero mainatanance and I know they are o.k. 99.9999999% of
>the time without even looking at them.  That way I can focus more on what
>I should be doing rather then worry about my equipment.  With regards to 
>how much better spin wings are in the wind, I would probably say that if 
>you aren't shooting in the 1320's or if you are'nt shooting a really low 
>poundage bow (Where every wind fighting cm helps...) then I wouldn't
>bother.  I switched after months of agravation with constantly fixing
>them after I saw Jay Barrs shoot a 1320+ on my local range with
>Arizona... obviously they can't be that bad :>.  I will admit though that 
>spin wings do look cool... :>

Sorry couldn't <snip> a thing!

Again I think it comes down to different things suiting different
people. I'd reckon that most of the Internationals shoot spin wings,
however plenty of them don't!

I do because I find that they are more forgiving than an equivalent
length straight fletch. I also reckon they keep my grouping a little
tighter when it's windy, at 45# for a target recurve it's not light
;-)

I do every now and then try straight fletches, hoping for the "low
maintenance" option to become preferable but so far MY results have
conclusively favoured spin wings.

As for looking cool, well YASUI Film Vanes they were cool ;-)

                        Stretch


PS Tempted to try some purple Easton fletches, they're cool too.

--

John Dickson,(aka Stretch) 

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From ldiehr@eth233.eld.ford.com (L S Diehr (Lawrence))
Date 22 Jan 1996 15:04:45 GMT


John Dickson (jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk) wrote:


I used spin wings on ACE 470 off my compound for a season on the Field
course.  

My scores went up, then whenever I shot through a bale, I had a refletching
job to do.  I have gone back to Flex-Fletch.

I still use them on my 3D setup - helps keep the total arrow weight
down and they control the arrow like no other fletch their size.

The Arizonas do have an interesting feature - they will accept a dying
- so the pink becomes a really nice purple in a couple of days in a jar 
of regular water soluable RITE dye from the grocery store.


Larry Diehr

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From OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>
Date Mon, 22 Jan 1996 20:59:12 GMT


Hi Stretch,



> Again I think it comes down to different things suiting different
> people. I'd reckon that most of the Internationals shoot spin wings,
> however plenty of them don't!

I agree... like I stated before if you are an international shooter
where the dif. lets say between 1325 and 1330 was significant, I would also
agree that you will notice a difference with spin wings.  In the wind especially.

> I also reckon they keep my grouping a little
> tighter when it's windy, at 45# for a target recurve it's not light ;-)

Yep... definatley noticable in higher winds.  I try to shoot on nice days I guess 

:>  My bow is 45# too so I agree that after some long practices
it definatley does not feel light to me either 
:>
> I do every now and then try straight fletches, hoping for the"low
> maintenance" option to become preferable but so far MY results have
> conclusively favoured spin wings.

Have you played around with Arizona's?  They are a lot softer then
most straight feltch and might be more forgiving too.

> As for looking cool, well YASUI Film Vanes they were cool ;-)

> PS Tempted to try some purple Easton fletches, they're cool too.

now if we just had vanes that were anti-chameleon and changed colors
based on what the target color they hit, and changed to show up the
best on that color (i.e. if in the gold they would be red but if in the
red they would be yello...) I think I would definatley buy some... <well
George?  anything in the plans?> :)

Jonathan

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From OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>
Date Mon, 22 Jan 1996 21:05:19 GMT



> The Arizonas do have an interesting feature - they will accept a dying -
> so the pink becomes a really nice purple in a couple of days in a jar of
> regular water soluable RITE dye from the grocery store. 


Neat.  Another cool thing about the arizona vanes is that if they do get 
a bit mangled and bent out of shape heat them under warm water or steam
and they usually return to their original shape.  At least mine do


Jonathan

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From Trevor@fawley.demon.co.uk (Trevor Smith)
Date Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:15:47 GMT


On 22 Jan 1996 11:57:42 GMT, jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
wrote:

>Does anybody else remember this in I think the Glade, circa 1990? The
>funny thing was that most of the best Koreans at the time were shooting
>Bemans with Spin Wings! Mr Brand was also trying to push Beman Soft Fletches!

I can remember the article: something about the torque induced in the
shaft when the rotating shaft hit the boss. Do they really spin that fast!

I think Beaman shafts suffer more from the type of bosses we use in
the UK.

regards

Trevor Smith         

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From force10ten@aol.com (Force10Ten)
Date 23 Jan 1996 05:56:24 -0500

Jonathan wrote:



>now if we just had vanes that were anti-chameleon and changed colors
>based on what the target color they hit, and changed to show up the best
>on that color (i.e. if in the gold they would be red but if in the red 
>they would be yello...) I think I would definatley buy some...
<well 
>George?  anything in the plans?> :)

Yes, this is on the project list along with the telekinetic guidance

system for the next generation A/C/E...   ;)


-g.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Date 23 Jan 1996 12:10:16 GMT


OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu> writes:

<Snip different things suiting different people>
>I agree... like I stated before if you are an international shooter where
>the dif. lets say between 1325 and 1330 was significant, I would also agree 
>that you will notice a difference with spin wings. In the wind especially.

I also think I'd like those extra 5 points at 1225 or (eek hope not) 1125 or 
horror of horrors 1295!

>Yep... definatley noticable in higher winds.  I try to shoot on nice days 
>I guess :>  My bow is 45# too so I agree that after some long practices 
>it definatley does not feel light to me either :>

In this part of the world there aren't too many *nice days*, even when
it's warm it's always windy! As for the 45# thing, your arrows will
probably be faster than mine since I have 32.5" tree trunk ACE's
and 70" limbs.

>Have you played around with Arizona's?  They are a lot softer then most 
>straight feltch and might be more forgiving too.

I tried Plastifletch years ago but I think there's a new Arizona Vane
(isn't there?) I haven't tried them. I usually try FlexFletch (although            
I love the sound of FlexFeltch ;-) becuase I can get them easily.   

This is why I was thinking about trying the Easton vane, they are also
very soft. In the past even at 18m I'd shoot 2 arrows bang on top of
each other and the other would ping out into the 8! Until I can rectify
this with straight fletches I won't be changing from Spin Wings.

>now if we just had vanes that were anti-chameleon and changed colors
>based on what the target color they hit, and changed to show up the best
>on that color (i.e. if in the gold they would be red but if in the red 
>they would be yello...) I think I would definatley buy some...
<well 
>George?  anything in the plans?> :)

In the meantime you could try some Curly Vanes, just like spin wings
but mettalic colours. Purple, Silver, Silver Holograms, Gold, Green,
Rainbow! These things shine in the target if the sun is out!

Sorry, I'm saving up $40K so that I can get Easton to make me a custom
size and colour G nock ;-)


John Dickson,(aka Stretch) 

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From Hywel Owen <h.owen@dl.ac.uk>
Date Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:51:34 +0000


Trevor Smith wrote:



> when the rotating shaft hit the boss. Do they really spin that
fast!
> 

I remember a talk given by Werner Beiter, where he said that the
average arrow performs less than 5 turns between the bow and target
(at 70m). At 200fps this is in 1 second, so the arrow is spinning at
less than 5rev/s. Not a lot....

Hywel Owen

'If Steve Hallard put a Coke can on the end of his long rod,
 there'd be a hundred others doing the same thing at the next 
tournament...' :>

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From ldiehr@eth233.eld.ford.com (L S Diehr (Lawrence))
Date 23 Jan 1996 18:24:05 GMT



OHAYON  JONATHAN (ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu) wrote:

: > The Arizonas do have an interesting feature - they will accept a dying -
: > so the pink becomes a really nice purple in a couple of days in a jar of
: > regular water soluable RITE dye from the grocery store. 

: Neat.  Another cool thing about the arizona vanes is that if they do get 
: a bit mangled and bent out of shape heat them under warm water or steam 
: and they usually return to their original shape.  At least mine do
:>

: Jonathan

The Arizona vanes do not have a good memory, and warm water is not often
available on the course - try Flex-Fletch vanes some time if you are having
problems shoothing through the bails 


Larry Diehr

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From Steve Meggeson <s.meggeson@utoronto.ca> 
Date Wed, 24 Jan 1996 21:35:18 GMT


Hey Jon,

Steve here.  From my own experience I find spin wings take quite a bit 
of care and maintenance.  Arizonas that I am now shooting have been way 
more durable.  Although there is an advantage to being flexible and being 
able to adapt and modify equipment for varying conditions, consistency
may be more readily achieved by making as little changes as possible.

JUST A THOUGHT:)

Steve.

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From OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>
Date Thu, 25 Jan 1996 04:51:31 GMT


> >now if we just had vanes that were anti-chameleon and changed colors 
> >based on what the target color they hit, and changed to show up the best
> >on that color (i.e. if in the gold they would be red but if in the red 
> >they would be yello...) I think I would definatley buy some...
<well 
> >George?  anything in the plans?> :)
> 
> Yes, this is on the project list along with the telekinetic guidance
> system for the next generation A/C/E...   ;)

About time... I'm tired of my arrows not listening to me though mentally
I am SHOUTING at them... 
:>  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>
Date Thu, 25 Jan 1996 04:42:05 GMT


> Hey Jon,

> Steve here.  From my own experience I find spin wings take quite a bit 
> of care and maintenance.  Arizonas that I am now shooting have been way 
> more durable.  Although there is an advantage to being flexible and being 
> able to adapt and modify equipment for varying conditions, consistency 
> may be more readily achieved by making as little changes as possible.

Steve, if you remember two years ago when I had to sit up late refletching
arrows at U.S. Nationals instead of sleeping, you'll know what
particularly made me change! :> I can happily say didn't have to refletch
ONCE this past U.S. Nationals... that was even after shooting a whole day
of CLOUT... love that event... <g>

Jonathan

p.s. - I still think that spin wings look cool though... wish there was 
a fletch boy (something like the ball boy in baseball) who would redo any 
fletching that needed to be redone... I would probably shoot spin wings
then... :>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From  OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>
Date  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:13:39 GMT


Hi Stretch,

> I also think I'd like those extra 5 points at 1225 or (eek hope not)
> 1125 or horror of horrors 1295!

Yep I'd like those extra 5 point too but I know I can get upto 10 times
more then that by woorying about my form more then I do about my fletch.
It costs me a lot more points then the fletch does :>. 

> In this part of the world there aren't too many *nice days*, even when 
> it's warm it's always windy! As for the 45# thing, your arrows will 
> probably be faster than mine since I have 32.5" tree trunk ACE's 
and 70"
> limbs. 

Probably so... I shoot 28.5 inch 520s with 90g points... speed estimated
at around 210fps.  Any idea about yours?

> I tried Plastifletch years ago but I think there's a new Arizona Vane 
> (isn't there?) I haven't tried them. I usually try FlexFletch (although 
> I love the sound of FlexFeltch ;-) becuase I can get them easily.

I am not sure if there is a new one... I use the Elite Plastifletch which 
might be different then just Plastifletch.  I hadn't actually realized
there were two kinds.  Either way they are pretty soft and I also use the 
small ones which are the #16.  They seem to work really well for me.

> This is why I was thinking about trying the Easton vane, they are also 
> very soft. 

From what I saw the Easton ones are exactly like the Elite Plastifletch
except that they have the cool Easton Diamond logo on them... I heard
someone saying at U.S.Nationals that Arizona makes them for Easton but 
we'd have to get Georges input on that one... we all know how many
rumors go around each year at that tournament... (sometimes even things like
anti-chameleon vanes... :>)

> In the past even at 18m I'd shoot 2 arrows bang on top of 
> each other and the other would ping out into the 8! Until I can rectify 
> this with straight fletches I won't be changing from Spin Wings.

I don't think I have ever had an arrow ping out because of my fletch...
from hitting a g-nock yes but not from the fletch itself.  So maybe these 
are the ones you were waiting for... :>

> In the meantime you could try some Curly Vanes, just like spin wings 
> but mettalic colours. Purple, Silver, SilverHolograms, Gold, Green,
> Rainbow! These things shine in the target if the sun is out! 

the "if the sun is out" is the only time there is ever a
problem...:>  

When the sun is out the Arizona bright color vanes shine almost enought
to blind low flying aircraft!

> Sorry, I'm saving up $40K so that I can get Easton to make
> me a custom  size and colour G nock ;-)

If you get them to do it maybe I can get them to make me red carbon ACE 
shafts (what's my current chances from 1-100 George?) ... since they
make blue carbon stabilizers and red bows how hard can it be? :>

Jonathan

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From angus@harlqn.co.uk (Angus Duggan)
Date Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:08:40 GMT

In article <Pine.SGI.3.91.960124233644.17697E-100000@skule.ecf>
OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu> writes:

>
>Steve, if you remember two years ago when I had to sit up late refletching
>arrows at U.S. Nationals instead of sleeping, you'll know what
>particularly made me change! :> I can happily say didn't have to refletch
>ONCE this past U.S. Nationals... that was even after shooting a whole day
>of CLOUT... love that event... <g>

There are two things which can be done to reduce the maintenance of Spin
Wings; one is to put thin tape around the shaft, overlapping the top and
bottom of the vanes. The other is to get lots of arrows. Then you don't need
to refletch quite so often :-)

Angus Duggan

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From OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>
Date Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:45:46 GMT


> There are two things which can be done to reduce the maintenance of Spin
> Wings; one is to put thin tape around the shaft, overlapping the top and
> bottom of the vanes. The other is to get lots of arrows. Then you don't need
> to refletch quite so often :-)

Of course, we could all just start shooting perfectly and then we could
use bare shafts...  (that should bring a reply or two... :>)

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From martin@housenet.demon.co.uk (Martin Leach)
Date Sat, 27 Jan 1996 20:44:40 GMT

On 22 Jan 1996 15:04:45 GMT, ldiehr@eth233.eld.ford.com (L S Diehr
(Lawrence)) wrote:

>
>The Arizonas do have an interesting feature - they will accept a dying - so the
>pink becomes a really nice purple in a couple of days in a jar of regular 
>water soluable RITE dye from the grocery store.
>
>--
>Larry Diehr

If you want really cool lokin spin wings then there is a company
called Alternative sporting services based over here in england 
that produces funky holographic spinwings and other bright colours.

They work as well, if not better than the originals but cost less if
anyone wants the address or more info then email me!

cheers!!!
                
    Martin Leach             

---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Subject: Re: Spin Wings
Date: 30 Jan 1996 11:06:23 GMT

OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu> writes:

>> I also think I'd like those extra 5 points at 1225 or (eek hope not)
>> 1125 or horror of horrors 1295!

>Yep I'd like those extra 5 point too but I know I can get upto 10 times
>more then that by woorying about my form more then I do about my fletch. 
>It costs me a lot more points then the fletch does :>. 

Undoubtedly but my form is perfect I just have to get my equipment sorted
out ;-) Honest Guv.

Seriously tho', I think some people have more problems with Spin Wings
than others. I don't mind refletching a set of arrows every three months
or so, therefore I have no problems with spin wings. I also like the
fact that once you have marked the shaft appropriately you will never
need a fletching jig again!

So you can fully refletch an arrow with Spin Wings in a few minutes
which you can't do with straight fletches.

>> In this part of the world there aren't too many *nice days*, even when 
>> it's warm it's always windy! As for the 45# thing, your arrows will 
>> probably be faster than mine since I have 32.5" tree trunk ACE's and 70"
>> limbs. 

>Probably so... I shoot 28.5 inch 520s with 90g points... speed estimated 
>at around 210fps.  Any idea about yours?

Maybe not then, my speed is estimated at 206-209 fps but it's not that
much slower than a bow that's been clocked at 219fps so that could
be a conservative estimate (sight marks would back that up too)

>I am not sure if there is a new one... I use the Elite Plastifletch which 
>might be different then just Plastifletch.  I hadn't actually realized

>there were two kinds.  Either way they are pretty soft and I also use the 
>small ones which are the #16.  They seem to work really well for me.

I think those must be different form Plasti's of old, they were not that
flexible and got a little stiff with age (but not as bad as TX Vanes
which get so brittle they crack!)

<Snip Easton D = Plastifletch Elite?>

>> In the past even at 18m I'd shoot 2 arrows bang on top of
>> each other and the other would ping out into the 8! Until I can rectify 
>> this with straight fletches I won't be changing from Spin Wings. 

>I don't think I have ever had an arrow ping out because of my fletch...
>from hitting a g-nock yes but not from the fletch itself.  So maybe these 
>are the ones you were waiting for... :>

I don't mean kiss outs off the vane, I mean't good but not quite perfect
shots, shots that should get a 9 get 8's. I have always found Spin WIngs
more forgiving to shoot.

>If you get them to do it maybe I can get them to make me red carbon ACE 
>shafts (what's my current chances from 1-100 George?) ... since they make 
>blue carbon stabilizers and red bows how hard can it be? :>

I think anodising Carbon isn't going to be too succesful and I don't
think I'd want someone to spray paint my ACE's so I'll stick to black,
nice shiny black.

Besides I've never seen blue ACE stabs or Easton bows??? (Well not since
Hoyt/Easton GM's). But lets face it if custom nocks cost $40,000, custom
shafts...................... Won the lottery have we?


                               Stretch

--
John Dickson,(aka Stretch)      

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: martin@housenet.demon.co.uk (Martin Leach)
Subject: Re: Spin Wings
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:58:56 GMT

On 22 Jan 1996 15:04:45 GMT, ldiehr@eth233.eld.ford.com (L S Diehr
(Lawrence)) wrote:

>
>The Arizonas do have an interesting feature - they will accept a dying - so the
>pink becomes a really nice purple in a couple of days in a jar of regular 
>water soluable RITE dye from the grocery store.
>
>--
>Larry Diehr



If you want really cool lokin spin wings then there is a company
called Alternative sporting services based over here in england 
that produces funky holographic spinwings and other bright colours.

They work as well, if not better than the originals but cost less if
anyone wants the address or more info then email me!

cheers!!!
          Martin Leach                         

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: force10ten@aol.com (Force10Ten)
Subject: Re: Spin Wings
Date: 31 Jan 1996 20:55:36 -0500

Jonathan writes:

>If you get them to do it maybe I can get them to make me red carbon ACE 
>shafts (what's my current chances from 1-100 George?) ... since they make
>blue carbon stabilizers and red bows how hard can it be? :>

>Jonathan

How about trying a can of Krylon paint, Jon ???   :)

-geo.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>
Subject: Re: Spin Wings 
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:37:44 GMT


Hi Stretch!

> Undoubtedly but my form is perfect I just have to get my equipment sorted
> out ;-) Honest Guv.

If that is the case could I get a video of it?  I am sure anyone would
pay me big money for a video of the perfect archer! :>

> So you can fully refletch an arrow with Spin Wings in a few minutes
> which you can't do with straight fletches.

You are right.... it only takes me apx. 45 seconds per arrow with arizona
vanes! :>  I am serious... we have timed it :>

> I think those must be different form Plasti's of old, they were not that
> flexible and got a little stiff with age (but not as bad as TX vanes
> which get so brittle they crack!)

sounds like it... these are very flexible (much more then spin wings...)
and if anything get less stiff with age.

> <Snip Easton D = Plastifletch Elite?>

Someone else just told me that again... still no real input though.

> I don't mean kiss outs off the vane, I mean't good but not quite perfect
> shots, shots that should get a 9 get 8's. I have always found Spin WIngs
> more forgiving to shoot.

but for someone with the perfect form you shouldn't need forgiving vanes! :>

> >If you get them to do it maybe I can get them to make me red carbon ACE 
> >shafts (what's my current chances from 1-100 George?) ... since they make 
> >blue carbon stabilizers and red bows how hard can it be? :>
> 
> I think anodising Carbon isn't going to be too succesful and I don't
> think I'd want someone to spray paint my ACE's so I'll stick to black,
> nice shiny black.
> 
> Besides I've never seen blue ACE stabs or Easton bows??? (Well not since
> Hoyt/Easton GM's). But lets face it if custom nocks cost $40,000, custom
> shafts...................... Won the lottery have we?

The stabs were not anodized... they were a wierd kind of blue and if I am 
not mistaken were the stabilizers that were sold to the Japanese archery
market.  Though I have seen them in afew other places (George T.'s
setup for one).  I had heard that they were going to be that color this year
on our market too but the new catalog doesn't say that... so I don't know
what happened.  Besides, the cost of them won't be a problem for me...
after all I am getting that tape from you that will make me millions!

Jonathan

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>
Subject: Re: Spin Wings 
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:41:30 GMT


> On 31 Jan 1996, Force10Ten wrote:
> 
> How about trying a can of Krylon paint, Jon ???   :)
> 

Thanks George!  I am sure that will just do wonders for my arrow flight
and bow tuning!  :>  Might be time for you to do a tuning seminar
with Don Rabska again :> <really large grin>.  

Now about easton making them for me...

Jonathan
:>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Subject: Re: Spin Wings
Date: 2 Feb 1996 12:05:38 GMT

OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu> writes:

>> Undoubtedly but my form is perfect I just have to get my equipment sorted
>> out ;-) Honest Guv.

>If that is the case could I get a video of it?  I am sure anyone would 
>pay me big money for a video of the perfect archer! :>

*Honest Guv* should have been a giveaway, if you want a video of perfect
form get the Easton Olympic videos and watch Kim, Soo-Nyung....that
is perfect (even if she didn't win Barcelona :-( )
 
>You are right.... it only takes me apx. 45 seconds per arrow with arizona 
>vanes! :>  I am serious... we have timed it :>

Question: What fletching jig do you use? Do you carry it in your quiver?
          What glue do you use, has it really set to shootable in 45s?
          Are your arrows fletched to a satisfactory standard ;-)

All the fletching jigs I've used take a couple of minutes a fletch
becaus eyou have to let the glue bond before removing the clamp. Or
are plastifletch elite like Diamonds with this adhesive base?

>> I don't mean kiss outs off the vane, I mean't good but not quite perfect
>> shots, shots that should get a 9 get 8's. I have always found Spin WIngs
>> more forgiving to shoot.

>but for someone with the perfect form you shouldn't need forgiving vanes! :>
 
I know, I DON'T BUT MY BOW DOES, it's just not up to my levels of
accuracy ;-)  B^)  %^)   :-)  :)  8)  8-)

>The stabs were not anodized... they were a wierd kind of blue and if I am 
>not mistaken were the stabilizers that were sold to the Japanese archery 
>market.  Though I have seen them in afew other places (George T.'s setup 
>for one).  I had heard that they were going to be that color this year on 
>our market too but the new catalog doesn't say that... so I don't know 
>what happened.  Besides, the cost of them won't be a problem for me... 
>after all I am getting that tape from you that will make me millions! 

They'll be painted then, won't they? Like Shibuya and co? I don't think
the carbon is actually blue carbon!?! I've never seen his godship GT
shoot, although I did see him demonstrating form to the Finish Team
(Incriminating photo available from me at extortionate cost, I'm saving
up for my nocks.)

You could make a fortune from a video of me shooting but you wouldn't
be able to sell it in the sports section, you'd have to go down to COMEDY
;-)

                                Stretch

John Dickson,(aka Stretch)      

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu>
Subject: Re: Spin Wings 
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:02:25 GMT


> *Honest Guv* should have been a giveaway, if you want a video of perfect 
> form get the Easton Olympic videos and watch Kim, Soo-Nyung....that is
> perfect (even if she didn't win Barcelona :-( )

If Soo-Nyung was perfect she would have scored 1440... or close to it... 

:> However, I'd *love* to be as close to perfect as she is!  :>

> Question: What fletching jig do you use? Do you carry it in your quiver?
>         What glue do you use, has it really set to shootable in 45s?
>           Are your arrows fletched to a satisfactory standard ;-)

I use a Blitzenburger (spelling ?) and Arizona vanes with AAE Fastset
glue (normal glue for the arizona vanes).  I don't carry it in my quiver
but I do have it with me at multi-day tournaments... It is fully 
shootable in 45 seconds and I am very VERY picky with my fletching.

I make sure they are perfect... The vanes do have the adhesive agent
in the base so when you apply the fletch on to the shaft with the clamp (and
make sure you get it right the first time) they are literally locked on 
permanantley in just a few seconds... it is amazing how well they bond
too.  Taking them off is the only problem (as anyone who does it right
will vouch for)... I have come close to using a belt-grinder in some
instances... :>

> All the fletching jigs I've used take a couple of minutes a fletch
> becaus eyou have to let the glue bond before removing the clamp. Or are
> plastifletch elite like Diamonds with this adhesive base?

Literally press the clamp to the shaft...press 5 seconds (at most)
and take clamp off... REALLY fast.

> I know, I DON'T BUT MY BOW DOES, it's just not up to my levels of
> accuracy ;-)  B^)  %^)   :-)  :)  8)  8-)

Yeah... right gov... that's the ticket... :>

> They'll be painted then, won't they? Like Shibuya and co? I don't think
> the carbon is actually blue carbon!?!

I ain't sure how they made the blue... still had that carbon look to it 
though.  Looked more like dyed carbon then painted over carbon... (If
George ever gets around to telling us we'll know... or are you still mad 
at my Don Rabsca tunning joke??? :> )

> I've never seen his godship G shoot, although I did see him demonstrating
> form to the Finish Team.

godship?? I know he helped an old lady cross the street as a cub scout
once but they made him an honourary saint for that??? (That ought to
elicit a response from him... ha ha ha)

> You could make a fortune from a video of me shooting but you wouldn't be
> able to sell it in the sports section, you'd have to go down to COMEDY
> ;-)

I won't make any money then... too many comedies from the rest of us shooting 
already :>

Jonathan

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jdickson@festival.ed.ac.uk (John Dickson)
Subject: Re: Spin Wings
Date: 6 Feb 1996 10:24:59 GMT

OHAYON  JONATHAN <ohayon@ecf.toronto.edu> writes:


>> *Honest Guv* should have been a giveaway, if you want a video of perfect
>> form get the Easton Olympic videos and watch Kim, Soo-Nyung....that is
>> perfect (even if she didn't win Barcelona :-( )

>If Soo-Nyung was perfect she would have scored 1440... or close to it... 
>:> However, I'd *love* to be as close to perfect as she is!  :>

I said her form was perfect, I said nothing about her aiming, I also
didn't say that it was perfect every time.;-) Watch and learn. Nobody
yet has sustained such high scoring over such a period of time as she did.
Although I guess D Pace may have come  close but before my time!
Moreover because she was shooting so well Cho and Lee had to shoot
evenbetter to keep up, hence Cho's 1370 and Lee's 1375. Crikey Batman!

>I use a Blitzenburger (spelling ?) and Arizona vanes with AAE Fastset
>glue (normal glue for the arizona vanes).  I don't carry it in my quiver 
>but I do have it with me at multi-day tournaments... It is fully 
>shootable in 45 seconds

Bitzenburger?

Arizona Elite must be the same as Easton Diamonds, I'll admit that they
are cool (the little Easton Logos are sweet), easy to put on, very
soft, it took me a little over a minute per arrow but I haven't used a
fletching jig in 5 years.

> and I am very VERY picky with my fletching.  

Geez, it was only a little joke ;)
 
>too.  Taking them off is the only problem (as anyone who does it right 
>will vouch for)... I have come close to using a belt-grinder in some 
>instances... :>

This I had heard, which is why I only fletched 3 arrows!

Unfortunately, based on one evenings mix and match shooting, the Spin
Wings group substantially tighter (although a minor retune may be
required for the Diamonds). I'm afraid that a 1 3/4" straight
vane may not be long enough for a 32 1/4" arow :-( I will continue to test
tho (I don't fancy ripping the diamonds off!)

>I ain't sure how they made the blue... still had that carbon look to it 
>though.  Looked more like dyed carbon then painted over carbon...(If 
>George ever gets around to telling us we'll know... or are you still mad 
>at my Don Rabsca tunning joke??? :> )

I saw some silver ones at the weekend, they just looked painted. Cool
but who'd pay 15% extra on their rod price for some silver paint???

>> I've never seen his godship G shoot, although I did see him demonstrating
>> form to the Finish Team.

>godship?? I know he helped an old lady cross the street as a cub scout 
>once but they made him an honourary saint for that??? (That ought to 
>elicit a response from him... ha ha ha)

Well anyone that might be able to supply me with information that may
improve my shooting but at least impoves my knowledge can have honorary
deity status (Oh yeah and anyone who shoots 1300's ;-) But then again
I'm a devout agnostic ;-)

                              
John Dickson,(aka Stretch)   

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